Interview: Arsenal legend Robert Pires – The International Years

In Part III, Robert talks about the controversial end to his international career, his thoughts on the current Arsenal and France teams, his opinions on Ligue 1 and his post-professional career.

Speaking of coaches… we have to go two years back in time from 2006… to 2004 and the French national side… Right, everyone says to me “Robert Pirès is the nicest person in football”…

Well you have to thank the people who have said that!

…but the only time that you are known to have strayed off the “right path” is when you gave the interview to France Football after the Cyprus match.

In 2004? On Domenech!

He is of course the person who ended your international career. In my opinion, I think in yours too, and I think in the opinion of almost everyone, it was very premature.

That’s for sure. 100% so, even.

Do you believe that he was using you as an example, in order to impose his authority?

It’s what we call in French un bouc emissaire – a scapegoat. That’s it. Well, he has never given an answer when asked any questions about me. I think because he must be embarrassed. On that day [after being substituted at half-time in a European Championship qualifier against Cyprus] I decided to speak out. To me it was important. Because the France team belongs to no one. Not to Domenech. Not to the players. Not to me. And at the time things were not going well at all for the team. We were in a bad period, we weren’t winning matches, European Championship qualification was becoming increasingly complicated. And so I said what everyone – and when I say everyone, I mean all the players – were thinking.

And the supporters!

Yes the supporters too, I think, and certainly the journalists, the same. The thing is that no one followed me. Never mind, that’s part of how football works. And I don’t regret it at all because, from the time when I spoke, to the end [of Domenech’s tenure], it was the worst years for the France team. Really the worst. OK, people will say “yes but we got to the final in 2006!” No, it’s not true, because if he hadn’t recalled three former players, for a start we wouldn’t even have qualified. So when people say that, I say no, it’s not true, it’s wrong. It proves that for me he is – well I say it in my book – he is incompetent! But really!

For 2006 it’s always said that it was Vieira, Zidane and Thuram who took over the team and more or less excluded Domenech?

Yes, of course. Everyone knows that but no one says it. But I’m saying it. From the moment that the four came back – because there was Makelele too – the France team changed, it took on a different aspect, and then for Domenech it was easy. But he wasn’t making the decisions.

What some people might not know is that he was your coach when you were with the Under-21s, and you have said that you had a pretty good relationship with him then?

Yes, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again today – our story is crazy! For the Under-21s he was the coach, he called me up every time, I was always a starter, we did the European Championships together, we did the Atlanta Olympics together. But from the moment that he took over the France senior team – I don’t know! He said to himself “Pirès, I don’t care.” It’s no big deal! It’s his choice! But what is certain is that I was as good as those who were on the pitch. That’s for sure. No problems. I realised that, against him, it was impossible to win. But if you’re asking me if I regret [speaking out], not at all! Not at all, not at all. I said what I thought, but more than that, I said what EVERYONE was thinking. That’s the thing.

Have any players, since, said “I should have backed you up”?

Yes, but it’s too late. It was in 2004 that they should have spoken. But there you go. That’s how it goes.

Staying with the France team, you spoke of a hierarchy – even in the building at Clairefontaine – and how one had to earn their place, how it was almost like the mafia – there’s the coach, then there’s Blanc, Deschamps, Desailly…

Also Djorkaeff.

Djorkaeff! For me, Djorkaeff is a very underrated player. The number of times he saved France with important goals!

Personally, I learnt a lot from training with him. The thing with Youri Djorkaeff is that he is a little in the shadow of Zidane. But honestly, he was a great player.

You said that if the younger players got a bit too cheeky, there were the older players there to say something. It made me think of Domenech and of the France team of recent years, and – I don’t want to pick just on him – but of Nasri and the story of the seat on the bus…

…with Thierry, yes.

I wanted to know, the recent problems of the France team, Domenech and his incompetence is a big factor, but do you think that there is also a generational problem? Is it that the more recent generation is spoilt by money?

Money has always existed in the football world. It’s true that, for a few years now, there has been more and more. But honestly, I don’t have any issues with that. However, what annoys me is that the youngsters today have no respect. They don’t respect the older players. That is a problem.

For club and for the national team?

Yes. You mention the story with the bus. In my time, that would never, ever, have happened. Because you respected the players who were there before you. As simple as that. It’s not complicated – earning millions, I don’t care. But as I said before – the France team belongs to no one.

To me it’s obvious. If you want to learn and to become part of the group, it is clear that you respect the older players.

In the past. In your time, or in my time. Maybe it’s also a question of education. What I remember is that the first time I went to Clairefontaine, I arrived at the canteen, I waited outside to see first where everyone sat, so that I didn’t take someone else’s place. That’s called respect. It’s as simple as that. And once there were spaces free, then I could take a seat. And the same for the bus. I was practically the last to get on. And I took one of the seats that were left. It was natural, it was normal. When I arrived at Arsenal, just imagine if I took Tony Adams’ place? No! Tony Adams is Tony Adams! He merits respect, he’s a senior player. So I wait, that’s how it is. Even though I’m world champion, European champion. Here, I’m at my club, it’s no longer the same. Now I’m in my Arsenal shirt. Tony Adams doesn’t care about the France team. You see what I mean? Martin Keown, Lee Dixon, David Seaman. No! [in English] “Wait!” You wait. It’s not complicated.

More recently, and with the match against Ukraine, things look to be going a little better. There were a few problems at the Euro but Blanc started straightening things out, and now there’s Deschamps. It can’t just be a coincidence that they are putting things in order?

No, it’s no coincidence. It is simply the work that Laurent Blanc put in, and today it’s Deschamps who has picked up the baton. Those two men were important to the France team as players and today, one was coach and one is coach now and yes, the team seems better since that second match against Ukraine. And for us – for the country – it is important to be there, in Brazil. We know that it is going to be difficult to win. We know that Ukraine is an average team. But the objective is to be there. After that – World Cup, European Championship – anything can happen.

Are you optimistic?  

It’s not me you have to ask. It’s the supporters.

But aren’t you a supporter now?

Yes, I’m a supporter, but I’m an ex-player, and I know what it’s like to play in such a competition. So I put myself a little in their place, saying “OK, I’m going to the World Cup and it’s to win”. What I want is for the France team to win. The more stars we have on the shirt, the better! (Smiles)

Do you believe in our chances of winning it?

It will be hard, we’re not favourites. That’s my opinion. Because before us you’ve got Brazil, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Italy. Then there’s the “outsiders” category. And there, yes. We can cause lots of problems for lots of teams. Because if you look at the list of our players, and you look at the names of the clubs they play for… not bad at all! So, we have a good team, a good squad, we have other qualities now. And now it is up to them to do the job. I’m optimistic. And I don’t know if we’ll do it in 2014. But certainly in 2016. I think that in 2016 we can be very, very good. We’re at home, but also we have this generation coming through who are world champions, some of those players are already in the France team now. And in two years they’ll have grown up, they’ll have acquired more experience. I’m very, very optimistic.

Are there any particular players who impress you?

I’m a huge fan of Varane. He’s classy, he makes it look easy, it’s the football that I like, particularly as he is a defender. The way he passes the ball out.

Like Laurent Blanc.

That’s what I was going to say. Like Laurent Blanc. So there’s him, but there are others too. You can’t forget Pogba, you can’t forget Thauvin. The players who are there already – you have Matuidi, you have Cabaye, you have Laurent Koscielny. I think that we’ll have a very good team in 2016. There’s little Griezmann too, at Real Sociedad.

He must surely be in the next squad, now he’s served his punishment?

Yes, but we mustn’t rush the players. Because this is the France team and you can quickly burn yourself out. It’s very hard work to be in the France team. And that’s our problem in France – every time a player has 10-15 good games, everyone says “he has to be in the France team”. But no, keep calm. We know that he wants to be in the France team, that that is his objective. We don’t need to keep telling him. If he gets there, it’s because he’s earned it. And there are players already there, there’s a hierarchy. We’ll see for the European Championships, but for now, no. Well that’s how I see it anyway. I’d prefer him for the European Championships than to chuck him in the deep end of the World Cup. There are other players right now, for sure.

But the future is looking bright for France?

Oh yes, they all play for the biggest European clubs, they all play in the Champions League. They’re nearly all qualified for the Round of 16. So the quality is there. I’m optimistic. I always am and I always will be!

How about another player who, I think, when he’s on form and in good health – as he is now – is a great player – Gourcuff. He’s another who suffered from the pressure on him, “the new Zidane”?

Well that’s the problem of the French press. Each time I say to them “stop – there’s only one Zidane, stop comparing, stop trying to find the new Zidane, the new Vieira, the new Blanc, the new Deschamps… No! When you compare someone straight away to a player, generally it does harm. Firstly because he already has a lot of pressure when he puts on the France shirt, and then when you say “you are like …, you will be the new…” – well no! It doesn’t work! But as for Gourcuff, I know him a little, I’m pleased with what he is doing at the moment, because it hasn’t been easy for him at Lyon, it hasn’t been straightforward with the bosses there, and he’s coming back well. The only thing is that I don’t know about the relationship that he has with certain members of the France team. That’s the concern, that’s his problem, and to be honest with you, I hope to see him again one day, to ask him for real how it’s all working out. But it’s clear that there’s a concern. And it’s a real pity because he’s coming right back into form. I watched him again yesterday in the championnat [Lyon beat Evian 3-0], and he has found all his qualities again.

Lacazette also deserves a chance in the France team?

Yes, I agree with you! There are lots of candidates, and lots of places are already taken. Of course Deschamps is thinking of him, he sees him. But one mustn’t make any mistakes, with the players. Like with Griezmann. I see him for sure in 2016.

Let’s speak about a player from your generation Someone who you were very friendly with, someone controversial – Nicolas Anelka.

Ah – Nico! Yes, we’re friends.

I have to admit that I’m not his biggest fan. But at the same time, I find it interesting that out of the six players who were excluded from the squad in 1998, he’s the only one who managed fully to get over it. I wanted to know if he is simply misunderstood. And also to ask you about him and the quenelle issue.

Well the quenelle, honestly, I didn’t know that it existed. And it isn’t really anything to do with me – that’s an issue for Nico and his friend Dieudonné. He’ll do what he likes, then some people will say yes, some will say no. I always say that you can’t please everyone. But as he wanted to make a dedication to his friend Dieudonné, he did his quenelle, and some appreciated it, some didn’t. In France it’s a very complicated, controversial subject, especially at the moment with Dieudonné. But other than that, Nico has always functioned on instinct, he’s always been like that. Some understand him, some have trouble going along with it. And maybe that’s how he plays with the press, with people. But with me there are no concerns. Because I’ve known him for a long time, I know that I can count on him, if ever I have a problem. And as you said, of the six who were excluded in 1998, he was the only one who got over the disappointment.

You have to have a strong character to be able to do that.

Oh yes! Mentally he is very, very strong. And he is very instinctive, and as soon as he doesn’t feel comfortable somewhere, he prefers to leave. And maybe that’s why he’s played for 10, 11 clubs. But it’s his career and I don’t get involved in that, because I always respect the decisions and choices of coaches and players. It’s his business. He’s my friend, but he can do as he pleases.

I’d like to speak a bit about what you’re doing now. You’re working as a pundit for BeIn Sports and Europe 1, is that right?

That’s right.

Do you cover Ligue 1, or internationals, or a bit of everything?

So my punditry for BeIn Sports covers the Champions League and, sometimes, the FA Cup. And for Europe 1, it’s all the European leagues – French, English, German, Italian and Spanish.

Ligue 1 is our site’s daily bread. It is becoming stronger and is also becoming more popular. There’s BT Sport which is now showing matches. And with PSG and Monaco, it’s getting a lot more media exposure. I saw an interview with you where you said that the PSG “project” was a good thing for Ligue 1?

Yes, the projects of PSG and of Monaco are very good, because they are the two that will push the French championnat to higher things. As I said, they are the locomotive. And we need that. We need money today. Without money you can do nothing. Without money you can’t buy butter. And, as is often the case, people criticise because the money is coming from either Qatar or Russia. But wherever they come from, they bring in the money, but they’re taxed, so even the State should be happy. They should want more to come, they should persuade more to come. OK, there are some people who aren’t very happy. Never mind. But for France, Paris and Monaco are important, and the proof is that channels like BT are now interested in the French championnat today. So it’s already good progress for France. Beforehand, not at all. In my day, you saw nothing, nothing, nothing of the championnat elsewhere. Like I said before, when I arrived here, people said “Pirès? Well where has he come from?” Even though I came from Marseille, and Marseille is a very well-known club in France. So that’s a bit of the difference between my time and now.

But do you really think that they will manage to pull the others up?

I think that they’ll pull the championnat up in terms of media exposure and image. But the others can’t compete with them. Not on the pitch. Because they are clubs with a very big budget, which means that you can buy pretty much anyone you want. And what’s happening today is that, when you look at the league table, there’s PSG and Monaco at the top, with three points’ difference between them [at the time of the interview]. And the others have already been left behind, there’s a big gap between them. But it doesn’t bother me, and it’s important because if, next season, Paris and Monaco can give good accounts of themselves in the Champions League, it’s very good for France.

We were speaking earlier about the beautiful game. Last year PSG won but it wasn’t very pretty to watch. This year is much better. And, even if they don’t pull the other teams to their level, I hope that they at least instil a different mentality, because although Ligue 1 has the players, it’s often negative football – it’s more important to not lose than to win.

Yes, that’s the philosophy of certain French coaches. If they get a draw, they’re happy. You need to tell them that if they win, it’s even better! It’s hard, and I’m not a coach, but I know that you should ingrain into your team that they should go for the win everywhere. At least try, go for it. Rather than say “today, 0-0 would be good because we’re playing away”. No! The aim is to win, that’s even better. But yes, Paris and Monaco will change things. And what’s good is that when you play against Paris or Monaco – you could see it on Saturday between Guingamp and Paris [Guingamp held PSG to a 1-1 draw] – a team like Guingamp can compete with Paris over one match. Everyone can raise their level when they’re playing against the Parisians or the Monégasques. It’s good!

You’re an ambassador for Arsenal, is that right?

Yes. I travel for the club. I’ve been to Indonesia, to China, to Nigeria. It’s always interesting for me to travel abroad, to represent Arsenal, and to realise that Arsenal are very, very popular in Africa and Asia. That’s a great achievement for the club.

And today’s Arsenal team, do you think that they can win the Premier League?

They can – and I certainly hope so! I wish that for Arsène Wenger, because he’s been at the club for a long time and he’s won nothing since 2005. But today he’s had a great start, he’s got a great team. But it won’t be easy. The quality is definitely there. But the squad is not as large as Man City’s. But we’re now at the end of January and they’re still first, so they have a good chance. But beware (touches wood), let’s see if we’re saying that in one month. Because February is going to be a nightmare for Arsenal. Ouh la la! Liverpool twice – FA Cup and league. Man United and Bayern Munich. Four matches. It will be a big test.

 I read that you were going to take part in a football project in India, and that it fell through, but that it might come back. Are you still interested?

(Laughs) I’m still interested by the India project. It’s been postponed once and, according to the most recent information that I have, it is planned to start in September. But we’ll see, I’m still not convinced.

But you’re up for it, if…

…Oh yes, I’m ready! That’s why I’m training with Arsenal, to stay fit, to keep up, to not turn up there as a tourist! From the moment I say yes, I will give it my all.

Is it a league just for ex-players?

Just ex-players. They want their championship to be better known around the world, so they have contacted lots of ex-players, especially those who have played in the English league, because it has a lot of media exposure there. And it could be interesting on lots of levels. Sport-wise, it will allow me to play, to be an ambassador for France, an ambassador for Arsenal too. So as long as I can still play, I can still enjoy it, I’ll continue, no problem. For sure, with lots of pleasure.

You’ve played with players like Zidane, Henry, Bergkamp, Kastendeuch. Who is the best player you’ve played with?

It’s a very difficult question. It’s very difficult to pick one or two players. Those you mentioned there – yes, of course. Your Bergkamps, Zidanes, Henrys – they’re the best. But there are lots who have helped me and who have allowed me to develop. There is one who no one knows, at Metz – Philippe Vercruysse. He played for France. No one really knows him but he was important for me personally, because when he arrived at Metz, he totally freed me. Because I had so much pressure on my shoulders, because everyone was saying “he’s the new player, he’s the revelation”. And I was pleased, but at 20 years old it’s complicated. But he arrived and said “listen Robert, go out on the pitch, enjoy yourself, and I’ll take responsibility for the rest, don’t worry”. And it’s true that from that moment, I felt liberated, I was free as a bird. And you see that’s why it’s hard to name just one player, because in every club that I’ve played, I’ve seen lots of very good players. Like at Villarreal, I played with Marcos Senna, I played with Diego Forlan, with Riquelme. So in all the clubs in which I’ve spent time, I’ve known some extraordinary players. In the France team – well you know them – Zidane, Djorkaeff, Petit. At Arsenal there are so many – players like Vieira, Tony Adams who for me is important. The player with whom I had the best relationship on the pitch, for example, at Arsenal…

Ashley Cole?

There you go! People would guess the others because they’re the best. But if you ask me, no, my best relationship was with Ashley Cole. For me it was – well, as the English say it was [in English] “easy”. For me it was a pleasure to play with him. So there you go, there are lots. There are always three or four above the others, but I can’t forget the others. For me it’s important.

You do a lot of work for charity and you said that for you it is more important to concentrate on one or two charities, rather than [spread yourself thin] over several. I know that you work with SOS Villages d’Enfants. There is also Le Rêve de Clara, which really moved me.

That’s the most recent one. It’s more the association of my wife, who is the president of Le Rêve de Clara. There is also an association based in South Africa, Grassroot Soccer. And yes, I try to be omnipresent for those charities. It’s true that I’m asked by a lot of charities, but unfortunately it’s not possible to do everything. That’s why I’d rather focus on those three and work with them as much as possible. And that’s why the last project that we did was for Le Rêve de Clara  in Metz. We arranged a friendly match for the charity. And it was a success because we managed to mobilise close to 5,000 people. And for me, that’s important because what we want is to help children who are in great difficulty.

In the Indian Ocean region?

That’s it. Le Rêve de Clara is a charity that helps poor children who are suffering from illness, in the Indian Ocean.

It’s not easy, but as I said, it’s like on the pitch – one has to try, one has to have a go, one has to take risks.

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Le Rêve de Clara is a charity named after a young Mauritian girl whom Robert and Jessica Pirès met whilst on holiday, who contracted bone cancer and had to have her leg amputated. Jessica Pirès runs the charity, which helps poor and unwell children in the Indian Ocean region, who don’t have the means and resources to receive necessary treatment. You can follow @lerevedeClara on twitter, or on facebook. You can also make a donation here.

Read PART ONE of the Interview – HERE

Read PART TWO of the Interview – HERE